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The Intolerance Demon strikes again!
So, Goddess Religions today was really tough, for a couple of reasons. First of all, we have the one that REALLY bothered me. In the course of discussing the difference between polytheism and monotheism, Dr. Mitchell made the point that polytheistic religions are more tolerant of other faiths, since they already have so many gods (an addition of one or two isn't a big deal), whereas monotheists tend to be less tolerant of other religions because the believe that their god is the only one and everyone else is just wrong. To illustrate this point, she claimed that initially, Christians were not persecuted by pagans "for a long time" because they worshipped "just another god."
Um, I BEG your pardon, but Christians have NEVER not been persecuted. I will grant that Stephen's martyrdom was at the hands of the Jews, a monotheistic people, so it doesn't count for this argument. But then we have people like James the brother of John, killed by Herod, a pagan. Peter and Paul, killed by Nero, a pagan. Actually you can take any of Nero's victims - there were certainly enough of them. Only one of the disciples, John, was not martyred, and that wasn't for lack of trying - the story goes that they boiled him alive, and the Catholics still celebrate his mass as though he had been killed (the theory is, he underwent an experience which would have led to martydom if God had not intervened, so that's close enough). The Jews certainly weren't happy with the Christians, but it was the pagans who carried out the majority of the persecutions against the band of Christ's followers. This is WITHIN ONE GENERATION of Christ - these are the men who traveled with Jesus during his earthly ministry. By historical standards - indeed, by just about any standards - that is anything but a "long time," thank you.
Her next claim is that , even when the persecutions began, they weren't that bad. She says that "what the Christians did to each other a little later is far worse than what the pagans ever did to them." Hmm, that's funny, I must have missed that part of the church history. When did the Christians start boiling each other in oil? Or feeding each other to lions? Or hanging each other on crosses and then setting those crosses on fire to light the streets of their cities? Or dragging each other through the streets tied to rampaging horses, then thrown off a cliff? Seems to me those were all PAGAN punishments for CHRISTIANS, and simply running a guy through with a sword or smashing his head in with a mace seems almost humane after that. I mean, that was really sick stuff!
Ah, but the worst is yet to come. For her next statement is that "the Christians probably deserved it."
*blinkblink*
I'm sorry, can you run that by me again? The Christians probably DESERVED IT. They deserved to be hung on crosses and set on fire, to be boiled in oil, to be beaten and humiliated and killed for simply preaching that Christ was God and that he was the only way to heaven. They weren't forcibly dragging people off to become Christians. They weren't rampaging through the streets and killing people. They were just teaching, like plenty of other people did every single day. Yet they deserved the persecution they received. Wow.
What's her justification for this? "I mean, they were so intolerant - some of them - so fanatical - some of them."
I'm sorry, did you say intolerant? Did you say fanatical? Can you say, the pot calling the kettle black? Because, whoa. I seem to recall, from my reading of Acts (granted, Troy and I are only halfway through, but still, I've read enough of it before to be relatively certain of this), that the apostles were preaching very peacefully. They were doing exactly what Christ had instructed them to do, namely, to preach the Truth in love. Who were so intolerant as to refuse to allow them to preach whatever they wanted, even when others were allowed to teach in the forums (remember, this is Rome)? Who were so fanatical about the supremacy of the Emperor that they hunted down and killed all those who taught that the Emperor was not a god? Was it the Christians? No, it was the pagans. And who is so intolerant as to be using her position as teacher to indoctrinate the class against Christianity? Who is so fanatical about feminism and relativism that she can't imagine any reason for Christianity to continue teaching that it is the only way to God? Is it the Christians? No, it's you.
Okay, that was harsh. Obviously, for a woman who grew up in a Methodist church, something has happened to hurt her and turn her against the Truth. Maybe it was only a perceived hurt, something she learned to perceive as painful during the feminist movement in the 60s, but that doesn't make it any less painful and I need to recognize that and remember to be compassionate toward her. But when she treats Christians, my family, with such flippant derision, it's kind of hard for me to keep my temper.
And that's not even touching on the whole evolution part. That doesn't bother me quite so much, though there are some things which are really frustrating. Like how she talks about the Scopes "monkey trial" and suggests that the book and the play are accurate representations of what actually went on (they're not - many thanks to the wonderful apologist grammastola for that explanation). Or how she claims that, not only was Darwin a Christian, but he saw no contradiction between his theory and Christianity (on the contrary, he recognized that it would be a blow to Christianity and by the end of his life had abandoned all religious beliefs). Or how she says that "since then, of course, there has been an incredible amount of evidence to fill in all sorts of gaps that were still there when Darwin did it" which is simply false and I'm not going to bother going into it AGAIN, especially considering that a future installment of "I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist" will cover that.
So, yeah. Today was incredibly frustrating. I just have to keep reminding myself that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, and that's a fact. Christianity is the Truth. It is. I've proven it to myself and to others countless times and I'm going through it again with IDHEFTBAA, and no matter what they throw at me, it doesn't change a thing. The Truth is a precious, precious thing.
-Jaya-
disgustedUm, I BEG your pardon, but Christians have NEVER not been persecuted. I will grant that Stephen's martyrdom was at the hands of the Jews, a monotheistic people, so it doesn't count for this argument. But then we have people like James the brother of John, killed by Herod, a pagan. Peter and Paul, killed by Nero, a pagan. Actually you can take any of Nero's victims - there were certainly enough of them. Only one of the disciples, John, was not martyred, and that wasn't for lack of trying - the story goes that they boiled him alive, and the Catholics still celebrate his mass as though he had been killed (the theory is, he underwent an experience which would have led to martydom if God had not intervened, so that's close enough). The Jews certainly weren't happy with the Christians, but it was the pagans who carried out the majority of the persecutions against the band of Christ's followers. This is WITHIN ONE GENERATION of Christ - these are the men who traveled with Jesus during his earthly ministry. By historical standards - indeed, by just about any standards - that is anything but a "long time," thank you.
Her next claim is that , even when the persecutions began, they weren't that bad. She says that "what the Christians did to each other a little later is far worse than what the pagans ever did to them." Hmm, that's funny, I must have missed that part of the church history. When did the Christians start boiling each other in oil? Or feeding each other to lions? Or hanging each other on crosses and then setting those crosses on fire to light the streets of their cities? Or dragging each other through the streets tied to rampaging horses, then thrown off a cliff? Seems to me those were all PAGAN punishments for CHRISTIANS, and simply running a guy through with a sword or smashing his head in with a mace seems almost humane after that. I mean, that was really sick stuff!
Ah, but the worst is yet to come. For her next statement is that "the Christians probably deserved it."
*blinkblink*
I'm sorry, can you run that by me again? The Christians probably DESERVED IT. They deserved to be hung on crosses and set on fire, to be boiled in oil, to be beaten and humiliated and killed for simply preaching that Christ was God and that he was the only way to heaven. They weren't forcibly dragging people off to become Christians. They weren't rampaging through the streets and killing people. They were just teaching, like plenty of other people did every single day. Yet they deserved the persecution they received. Wow.
What's her justification for this? "I mean, they were so intolerant - some of them - so fanatical - some of them."
I'm sorry, did you say intolerant? Did you say fanatical? Can you say, the pot calling the kettle black? Because, whoa. I seem to recall, from my reading of Acts (granted, Troy and I are only halfway through, but still, I've read enough of it before to be relatively certain of this), that the apostles were preaching very peacefully. They were doing exactly what Christ had instructed them to do, namely, to preach the Truth in love. Who were so intolerant as to refuse to allow them to preach whatever they wanted, even when others were allowed to teach in the forums (remember, this is Rome)? Who were so fanatical about the supremacy of the Emperor that they hunted down and killed all those who taught that the Emperor was not a god? Was it the Christians? No, it was the pagans. And who is so intolerant as to be using her position as teacher to indoctrinate the class against Christianity? Who is so fanatical about feminism and relativism that she can't imagine any reason for Christianity to continue teaching that it is the only way to God? Is it the Christians? No, it's you.
Okay, that was harsh. Obviously, for a woman who grew up in a Methodist church, something has happened to hurt her and turn her against the Truth. Maybe it was only a perceived hurt, something she learned to perceive as painful during the feminist movement in the 60s, but that doesn't make it any less painful and I need to recognize that and remember to be compassionate toward her. But when she treats Christians, my family, with such flippant derision, it's kind of hard for me to keep my temper.
And that's not even touching on the whole evolution part. That doesn't bother me quite so much, though there are some things which are really frustrating. Like how she talks about the Scopes "monkey trial" and suggests that the book and the play are accurate representations of what actually went on (they're not - many thanks to the wonderful apologist grammastola for that explanation). Or how she claims that, not only was Darwin a Christian, but he saw no contradiction between his theory and Christianity (on the contrary, he recognized that it would be a blow to Christianity and by the end of his life had abandoned all religious beliefs). Or how she says that "since then, of course, there has been an incredible amount of evidence to fill in all sorts of gaps that were still there when Darwin did it" which is simply false and I'm not going to bother going into it AGAIN, especially considering that a future installment of "I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist" will cover that.
So, yeah. Today was incredibly frustrating. I just have to keep reminding myself that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, and that's a fact. Christianity is the Truth. It is. I've proven it to myself and to others countless times and I'm going through it again with IDHEFTBAA, and no matter what they throw at me, it doesn't change a thing. The Truth is a precious, precious thing.
-Jaya-
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